Curse

Asrial · Mar 25, 2006, 12:08 AM // 00:08

Okay, reading further, looks like I fell into the trap of 12v12 alliance battle and 8v8 competitive mission too

Asrial · Mar 25, 2006, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Okay, I just read the entire thread. I've been typing my post while at work so there's been new posts since I originally started.

I agree that 'forced random' 8v8 PvE Competitive Missions isn't a good idea.

Here's my suggestion on how to resolve this:

Allow random entrance so you can at least play and give it a shot, but allow team creation as well.

Now, they're setting it up so that there's a real sense of Luxon vs Kurzick, but it hurts when trying to play with friends or if you've come across a really good PUG and it gets split up when you go into the outpost.

So, why not just modify it so that a Luxon can fight for the Kurzicks, buts get no benefits? (kinda like how it is right now with merchants, etc)

6 Luxon's and 2 Kurzick's win a "Luxon" victory, but the 2 Kurzick's get no benefit at all (in fact, they may get a subtraction of Kurzick faction (very minor so that it's noticed you're helping the enemy, but not enough that you're ruining hanging out with your friends)).

Also, if you're playing with guild members, you're all going to be the same faction anyways.

[EDIT: one more thing *pant*, keep in mind that this is also a BETA as well as a preview; create a well written letter and pass it on to A-Net!]

Cymrix · Mar 25, 2006, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Edit: This was originaly in response to Jenovels' post. I took too long and didn't "quote". Sorry for the mistake.

I still definately see your point, like I said before.

If you changed it to a GvG kind of thing then you are straying from the PvE aspect you say you want. It doesn't state anywhere that I've found that this is the PvE players chance to "shift the battle lines". That is the Alliance Battles. And getting a group of people together that are better than another group of people is not "skill", it's smart, but it's not skill.

And this might not be the way it is in the actual release. Maybe because they don't wan't the new people here to check it out for the first time to feel like they can't compete. It's the number one reason people don't play this game. (out of those that have tried it, or are interested) They think it's too hard to compete.

I was also thinking... That this form of PvP is more akin to an FPS game. You jump in and play. If you don't know what's going on then you are SOL. So I think as time goes on (even later in the weekend), you will find that since more people get to "know" the maps they will be better. Or that the lamers have tried it and don't want to do it again.

All in all I think for what you are looking for you have many options, it's just not getting your cake and eating it too.

I hope you get what you want. And here is a link to the page I'm getting my info from http://www.guildwars.com/events/inga...onspreview.php .

This is not a response to flame you or put you down. Just trying to help you with a different perspective(s). I hope it came across as such. I meant no offense in pointing out your errors. Just thought it would help you as well as others that read this thread

Good luck.
-Cym

putrid · Mar 25, 2006, 12:33 AM // 00:33

You guys need to think of the balancing issues first before you say 'OMGZZZZ I CANT PLAY WITH 11 OF MY GUILDIES BANBANBANBANBANBNABA!!1op1o1'...

Really. I know it sucks, I dislike the random too.

Thing is, can you imagine a 12 man eoe bomb? a 12 man iway? 6 heavy hex spammers? All organised and communicating? That would just spoil the effect of it, although, I do think it is a good idea, the 12v12 would be seriously unbalanced.

Aeon221 · Mar 25, 2006, 12:36 AM // 00:36

Pirate Attack!

Minus Sign · Mar 25, 2006, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by AeroLion

Did it ever occur to you that I'd rather play with guildies or friends and have no interest in being paired with a random team?

Did it occur to you that that is why they did it? Personally, I like the RA factor these Arenas suggest for border control. No 1 guild is going to take over Cantha. No IWAY builds are going to destroy the game dynamic.

Yes, there are bugs, but this is also a Preview Event, not the actual game. Theres an official Bugs thread right in this sub-forum. I suggest you take your concerns there (if they aren't just a gripe) or keep exploring. You just may find more things out there than the RAs.

Ninetail Trickster · Mar 25, 2006, 12:47 AM // 00:47

[JackSparrow]I'm 'aving... I'm 'aving a thought, 'ere.[/JackSparrow] (He would be a Luxon. It's relevant. Gimme a break.

)
Perhaps the reason for the lack of organization is an attempt to emphasize alliance to your Faction, as opposed to your Guild? Think about it- if you were with your guildies, would you be fighting for them, or for the honor of your Kurzick or Luxon brothers-in-arms?
I think ANet is trying to engender a sense of comradery.

...I am unqualified to speak for ANet...
...this does not solve anything...

Disclaimer complete. Just sayin'.

Linsys · Mar 25, 2006, 12:49 AM // 00:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asrial

First, to anyone concerned about their pre-order, I say just cancel it. Do us all a favor and stop trying to use "I may cancel my pre-order unless it gets better!" as flame-bait. If you're having second doubts, don't waste your money until you're confident that you're going to get the product.

agreed!!

AeroLion · Mar 25, 2006, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minus Sign

Did it occur to you that that is why they did it? Personally, I like the RA factor these Arenas suggest for border control. No 1 guild is going to take over Cantha. No IWAY builds are going to destroy the game dynamic.

Yes, there are bugs, but this is also a Preview Event, not the actual game. Theres an official Bugs thread right in this sub-forum. I suggest you take your concerns there (if they aren't just a gripe) or keep exploring. You just may find more things out there than the RAs.

Your points are so utterly meaningless it's not even funny. These are PvE missions. Player Versus Environment! This is not a bug. This is not someplace where guilds or flavors of the month are going to dominate because it's not PvP.

This is the equivalent of trying to play Bloodstone Fen, Elona Reach, or Thunderhead Keep, with random people. Honestly, I have no idea why people don't see this as a problem. If you only had an "Enter Mission" button in Hell's Precipice and you got paired with 7 other completely random people, wouldn't you think that it wasn't fair?

SalamandraTheNinja · Mar 25, 2006, 02:02 AM // 02:02

Only thing is, in these random competitive missions, you're against other randomly selected players. Not against very high level npc's like in Hell's Precipice.

mark3h · Mar 25, 2006, 02:31 AM // 02:31

have to agree with aerolion, this preview event is more to show the PvE areas and how the faction system works. It may include a PvP type play but thats only one type of it, as seen in GW there is many types of PvP.

I know how annoying it is to get stuck with randomers who dont know what they are doing, but weren't alot of us the same when we started GWing nearly a year ago?

Studio Ghibli · Mar 25, 2006, 02:33 AM // 02:33

I'd like to let the OP know that WoW did not come up with domination-style or assault-style maps.

For me, that's Unreal Tournament. :d

Tastee.

Anywho,

I -love- the Alliance 12v12. It's absolutely delicious. ;D

I haven't had time to test out the 8v8 though. I was too busy doing the 12v12. :d

Well, I did do one 8v8. It was the one where your turtles were laying siege to their base.. ?

I enjoyed it. Only downer was the fact I couldn't play with guildies. ;P

Jenosavel · Mar 25, 2006, 03:20 AM // 03:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cymrix

If you changed it to a GvG kind of thing then you are straying from the PvE aspect you say you want.

I never said to make it a GvG kind of thing. I merely said that so long as it remains random, it can't be taken seriously. If its to be the only way to influence your access to towns via PvE, this would be a huge problem.

Quote:

It doesn't state anywhere that I've found that this is the PvE players chance to "shift the battle lines". That is the Alliance Battles.

Ah, my mistake. They influence which towns your alliance is able to control, which still causes the same problems. They're a key PvE mechanic, yet they're barred from team strategies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Strain

By earning faction points in new strategic Competitive Missions and Challenge Missions, roleplayers help their guild alliance take control of towns and outposts, giving them the ability to trigger unique events (e.g. parades) and gain access to exclusive areas of the town.

-source

Quote:

And getting a group of people together that are better than another group of people is not "skill", it's smart, but it's not skill.

Actually, it is skill. Not the getting together a bunch of people who are better than others, but rather getting together a group of people who can work together better than others. This is a team game afterall, so you can't deny that being able to know beforehand how your team is going to operate can make a gigantic difference in the outcome of a battle.

A very small portion of the 'skill' in this game is knowing which skills to bring and how to use them yourself. A much greater part of the skill is knowing what skills your teammates are going to use, how they will need to use them, and therefore how you need to change your own individual strategy. The problem with randoms is that it can't really go beyond the individual strategies. 8 individuals fighting another 8 individuals is a far different thing from a team of 8 fighting a team of 8.

Quote:

And this might not be the way it is in the actual release.

I sincerely hope that it isn't, which is why I feel I had to say something. ANet can't change the game for the better if they don't know there's a problem, afterall.

And no hard feelings taken on my end.

TideSwayer · Mar 25, 2006, 03:34 AM // 03:34

I see that the henchmen AI is still as dumb as ever. (Why is the damn protection hench going up to tank?) Thanks for the new content ANet. Too bad I can't really enjoy it because every PUG is downright terrible and the henchmen are no better (although I appreciate the extra types). I simply cannot get anywhere. The huge number of Assassins who think they are tanks with their 70 armor as well as first-time players who've received invites, combined with standard, high-level, HUGE endgame mobs, are really making me frustrated. You really think new players are going to be able to play with those types of mobs? Dredges give massive poison but starter monks don't even get heal party. Gee, thanks.

I can't get to any damn town. I can't get to any damn missions. I can't do a damn thing. It's events like these that make me wish I had actually joined up with a good guild, and it's all but too late now. Spamming LF guild in any random outpost is just going to get me invites from crappy ones that are no better than what I'm already playing with. I'm freaking miserable right now. Twice I've had to take a break from GW entirely because every damn group I join gets wiped out in about 5 minutes or less, and I'm getting ticked off.

I think Factions is pretty cool though, despite this. I'm sure there are lots of players who have managed to find that rare good PUG or are in a good guild that have completed all the missions by now, and they're enjoying it. Good for them. Sucks for me.

Not like this weekend had to sell me on Factions anyways. I'm still getting it no matter what. And it's probably better that I don't get spoiled by any of the stuff anyways.

Oblivion's Hell · Mar 25, 2006, 03:37 AM // 03:37

What your looking at now is Factions in its Beta state. There's still about two months before the release.

Plus your the ones that are testing it! so if you don't like something go ask Guild Wars for a change!

Asrial · Mar 25, 2006, 03:38 AM // 03:38

You're also looking at high end content on un-tweaked characters.

dawnrain · Mar 25, 2006, 03:56 AM // 03:56

I like the random aspect of it. And from a global view it has an overall balancing effect.

Just because it's random doesn't mean it requires no thought or skill. Consider this, over many battles the random elements will balance themselves out. Eventually the most contributing factor to your success in these random arenas is your build and your skill.

How seriously you wish to take this part of the game (or the game in general) is up to you.

BellyFlop · Mar 25, 2006, 03:56 AM // 03:56

God some of you make good points and some of the others sounds like they are in a need of a

Loviatar · Mar 25, 2006, 04:14 AM // 04:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oblivion's Hell

There's still about two months before the !

nope

one (1) month and a few days to get to April 27th

Jenosavel · Mar 25, 2006, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawnrain

Just because it's random doesn't mean it requires no thought or skill. Consider this, over many battles the random elements will balance themselves out. Eventually the most contributing factor to your success in these random arenas is your build and your skill.

The thing you're failing to realize is that top PvP guilds barely pay any attention to Random Arenas. Why? Because they're a joke (or maybe a trial ground for a new build...). For the same reasons, top PvE guilds will barely pay any attention to Competitive Missions. As they stand, Competitive Missions are nothing more than a roll of the dice. No matter how skilled you are at convincing a random band of people to actually work together (that's a real strain on the ol' leadership skills), you'll still come across people who couldn't care less and run in the opposite direction.

You say it's your build and your skill that will matter, but what you're really implying is that it's your individual build and skill. I personally care about my team build and skill, since, you know, this is a team game.